H: Vicky Letch, host
JJ: Jacqui Jagger, Bravissimo fit guru
J: Jenni Trent Hughes, Psychologist
K: Katie Hardy, Bravissimo model
H: Hello and welcome to the Lifestyle Show, I'm Vicky Letch. Now then, we all know breasts come in all different shapes and sizes, yet they often get overlooked when it comes to giving them the support they need. Many of us never have a professional bra fitting, which of course is crazy because wearing the right size can transform your shape, not to mention improving your posture – I should sit up straight when I say that – and even change the way we look in our clothes. Now joining me today is Jenni Trent Hughes, a psychologist and Jacqui Jagger – great name – from Bravissimo and Katie Hardy who is the Bravissimo model – hot stuff. Welcome ladies, thank you very much for joining us. Now of course we are totally live today so if you have any questions that you'd like to deliver to Jacqui, Jenni or Katie, or any comments at all just put them in the box on the screen and click and we will answer them for you. Welcome, welcome, welcome to all of you, thank you so much all of you for coming along. Boobs! We love talking about them don't we? But they're a minefield – I mean it's quite difficult really to find a bra that fits you perfectly. How many people do you think at the moment are walking around in the wrong size bra and they just don't know?
JJ: Certainly from our experience, from people coming to us in our shops for a fitting, around 80% of people are in the wrong size
H: 80% of people that's amazing! Now do you find being the guru that you are in all things breast, do you walk around the street going you're wearing the wrong size, you're – I mean -
JJ: Yes
H: You must want to change people's lives
JJ: You do, you do because, because you've experienced it for yourself, I first got fitted when I started working at Bravissimo, and it does make such a difference
H: Yes
JJ: You know in day-to-day, and yes I do as I'm walking down the street I will see people and just think oh please come to us for a fitting, please it will make such a difference
H: I mean it's an interesting one because as women obviously we could spend – Jenni, you have beautiful lipstick on today, you know how long did it take you to choose that lipstick? We could spend days looking for the right colours and shades, so why do we ignore this very important area?
J: Well I'm not a good one because I'm not a good girly girl at all, and I just went in because somebody said right ok you really should go in, and I have to say I think Jacqui's wrong, I don't think it's 80%, I think it's 99.9% – I think if you haven't been measured then you've probably got it wrong
H: I agree, yes
J: You know because I thought that I was a 50D and went in and found I was a 38JJ – well that's a ridiculous difference,
H: Yes
J: And I realised that I have never, ever, ever – before now – worn a bra that did what it was supposed to do
H: Yes. And you were saying before we were live how much better you're feeling, you feel comfortable
J: Oh I – you know and I've always been very confident, but now I know that something's not going to fall out or I'm not going to be on television adjusting my straps -
H: The boys are going – oh
J: You know. I mean and I just feel I'm ready to cartwheel, I'm ready to jog – anything anybody wants I'm up for now because I just feel that much more confident
H: And it's made that much of a difference?
J: Abs – and I never, ever – I would have laughed at anybody that told me it would make this much of a difference
H: Yes
J: But it's phenomenal
H: And I mean yours are ample – if you don't mind me pointing that out
J: No I like them
H: I wonder – I like them, I like them, they're fantastic. But I wonder if it would make that much of a difference to someone like me. I would consider myself to be relatively small-chested really. I mean if I'm wearing the right – she's thinking you're not. You're a J! No I'm not really a J. But I wonder if I, if it would change my life that much
JJ: It's different for different individuals, certainly it can be more dramatic for somebody who is particularly big-boobed to have the right fitting from wearing totally the wrong fitting, will make a more dramatic difference
H: Yes
JJ: Definitely. But what we find, we start at a 28 back and go up to a 40 and what we find is an awful lot of women go from wearing say a 32 or 34 back and go down one or two back sizes, and typically up one or two cup sizes
H: Yes
JJ: And actually yes they still do have quite a dramatic change and it does make a difference to how they feel about themselves, about their figure, about how their clothes fit on them. All kinds of things
H: Yes. Because I almost find that more fascinating than the cup size. I find the back size almost more intriguing because I would – I would have always been a 34 and then I met one of your colleagues, she went you're not! You're definitely a 30, at least a 30 / 32 and you know I find that almost more interesting that we're getting that wrong which would be sort of straightforward to measure that area, surely?
JJ: Typically people associate the letter with how ample somebody is or isn't
H: Yes
JJ: So if someone has big boobs, then people will kind of typically think that a D cup for example is glamour girl proportions and assume that a 34D or 36D is a big bra size. Actually if somebody is say a size 10 / 12 they're much more likely to be a 30 or a 32 back than they are a 34 or a 36 back. And there is an awful lot of mystery in that, that people don't realise that, and that's why so many women are wearing the wrong size
H: Wow I might as well just whip this off, it's doing nought for me! Katrina, thank you very much for your question. Katrina says "how often should I have a bra fitting?"
JJ: Well I would say first of all have a professional bra fitting to get you in the right size and get you started off. Beyond that it depends how confident you feel fitting yourself.
H: Yes
JJ: For some women that we fit, once you've had one bra fitting and you know the signs to look out for then you can fit yourself and you don't need to have a professional fitting. But typically we would recommend that at least every 6 months to a year or so -
H: Yes
JJ: That you do at least kind of get checked by one of our fitters, just to make sure that you are in the right size
H: Yes
JJ: And also for style advice, because different styles suit different people as well
H: Absolutely. Now let's bring you in you stylish lady! Now you had some problems finding the right bra size
K: Yes definitely, I was wearing a 34DD so I was like you and I assumed I was 34 -
H: Yes – like you
K: But once I was fitted I was actually a 30FF
H: Wow
K: So much smaller and much
H: Fuller
K: Fuller which -
H: Smaller and fuller. Which is incredible isn't it because when you look at you you're just so dinky, I would have said before yes you -
K: Thank you
H: You're wearing the right size, you're beautifully slim. But do you know what, we thought if you puzzled us, how would people on the streets react to you, so I hope you don't mind -
K: Ok
H: But the other day we went out with a photo of you and we found lots of people and we said look at this girl, what size bra do you think she's wearing and this is what we found out. Take a look -
Video Footage
What size bra do you think Katie is?
"I think this lady is a 34D"
"Like a double D – 36, I don't know"
"38C"
"Mmm – what do you think?"
"I think about a 38D – F?"
"Yes F I'd say, 38F"
"34 or 36. I would say E / F?"
"Ok. I don't know 36E or something"
"Ooh I think she's wearing a 36DD"
"FF"
And what back size would you say she is?
"34"
"I think she might be a 34C"
"Go on Gideon, you're an expert at this"
"I'm an expert"
"34C"
"Yeah go on, we'll roll with that"
"34C"
"34C"
"Yes yes"
"Might be a 34C"
"Yes 34C, why not"
"E? D / E?"
Ok, and what back size do you think she is?
"34?"
"A 40D"
"Go on Alex – "
"Yes she's not very big though is she?"
"No I bet she's -"
"But bigger here, cup size"
"I'd say she was an F"
"32 or 34"
"She's got quite small isn't she?"
"Yes that's – 34 I"-
"Yes 34F"
H: Wow that is so interesting! I mean that was a huge difference from person to person. I mean some of them got the F cup size but the back size is incredible for somebody. So tell us how you have got the perfect bra for our lovely Katie?
JJ: Well what we do when we start with a fitting, we don't use tape measures at all. So what we will do is we will start with trying on bras to get the right fit in the back, and if I just get Katie to turn to the side on there – basically to know that you've got the right size, it should feel firm and snug, so I can still get my fingers underneath there, can still pull it out and have some tension, but there is tension on it. One of the signs that that's not happening is if during the day your bra rides up at the back. If that happens -
H: We've all been there
JJ: Yes. If that happens it means that your bra's not snug enough
H: Ok
JJ: So it's riding up during the day. So if you get Katie just to lift your arm there- so you can see that this band comes round horizontally -
H: Yes
JJ: So that will be the first thing that we would always start with the fitting, so make sure that the back is fitting like that, horizontally round nice and snug. Then just looking at the cups, basically if you watch the line here of the wire, it's coming from right at the side and behind the breast tissue there, all the way round and flat against the centre here. And I know myself before I had a professional fitting, that was one of the things that I just thought yes, it just doesn't work on me, they never sit flat on me. They should. They do. So if that's you then go and get fitted. Because yes this should sit right back. Then in terms of the cups you can see that this is a lace cup and it's sitting nice and smoothly over the breast tissue, so it's not cutting in, it's not bulging, but nor is there lots of material that's getting wrinkling. And basically once it's on we would just then adjust the shoulder straps. These shouldn't be taking the weight and giving support – they should just be there for a bit of lift and to give a bit of extra shape
H: Ok
JJ: But most of the support comes from getting the back size right.
H: See I find this amazing so you were a size -
K: 34DD
H: Now you're wearing -
K: 30FF
H: It's incredible. How did you find though losing those inches around the back – did it feel really snug or did you think no, this is -
K: It does feel tighter than I used to, but much less here, and no red marks on shoulders which I used to get
H: I always have those unsightly red marks.
JJ: That comes because if the back isn't snug enough to do its job, and isn't giving you the right level of support then what happens is the weight of your boobs at the front will actually pull the shoulder straps down and into your shoulders. And the other thing is people can try and shorten the shoulder straps to get the lift they want, so they shorten the straps and pull it into their shoulders, just to try and get the lift when again actually getting the back size right means you get the lift more naturally from the support of the bra
H: I am a breast heathen – we need to talk after the show, definitely
JJ: We need to get you fitted
H: We're all amazed at the size you came out at. Let's see what the public thought, take a look -
Video Footage
Ok her actual size is 30FF
"Wow she's 30?"
"She's tiny, God she must be whooah"
"Toppling over"
"I'm very surprised that she's a double F"
"She doesn't look that big"
"Really?"
"Yes really surprised. Really surprised, yes"
"Really surprised yes"
"Ah ok, wow. Yes"
Are you surprised?
"No because I think that's the bit that's easy to get wrong, the bit kind of around your width or whatever. Yes, ok"
"Impressive, good bra"
"I'd say I was very bad at guessing, yes no absolutely"
"Well look I got double F right. That's good isn't it? 30, ok, yes"
Actually a 30FF
"She can't be – but I know the answer to the question because I've had that – that people never know their proper bra size and that you – I had the same experience, that when you're smaller around the ribs, but you can't buy those sizes in most shops. Did you know that?"
"Double – yes might be double but F doesn't seem much to me"
"Eh? Ok."
"Big isn't it?"
"That is big on paper isn't it?"
"Double F is massive"
"Shocked"
Ok would you be surprised if I told you she's a 30FF?
"I would be amazed"
"That's quite surprising that she's a 30 actually because she looks big around there"
H: Ok so we had shocked, we had amazed. I actually wonder how many girls from having that experience, seeing what you went through went home that day and thought right that's it, I need to get rid of my bras and start again. Amazing. Now Jenny let's use you, you are here – yes
J: Yes
H: Free advice as we were saying. From the age where I thought it might be quite handy to look nice in my underwear at some stage in my life, I never have. How do we get to the stage where we look in the mirror and go yes, you've got it going on girl?
J: It's actually inside
H: Ok
J: It really is inside and I meet girls all the time who are like the beautiful Katie who absolutely will say this is wrong with me, that's wrong with me and they're not comfortable and don't have any confidence. So it's actually really about looking at yourself and saying ok this is what I am, I like me
H: Yes
J: Let's do the best that we can with it, and it really does start on the inside
H: Yes
J: And of course having lovely things like this on makes all the difference in the world
H: I know, so pretty. I mean these colours are gorgeous. Actually it makes me sit here quite ashamed and I think I open my top drawer – it's all black and it's all white and -
J: And grey
H: Grey
J: Grey
H: There is some grey in there, I can't deny it. Let's go to some questions now, Megan you've sent a question in, thank you very much. Megan says "I'm a FF and any prolonged walking let alone jogging can be really painful. It's starting to affect me, and whilst the boys think it's a good look I'm seriously thinking I might need a breast reduction. Help!" Who wants to go in?
J: Well I know that I was having trouble with extended walking from my lower back and never realised that it was the same thing, and now I'm all fitted out properly, I can walk and walk and it's fine
H: Great ok well that's good. Jogging?
J: So she's – don't want to jog, but she's a FF, but I would suspect then that the size is wrong though
JJ: It could be that the size is wrong, the other thing is it's really important when doing any kind of exercise to make sure that you wear a good sports bra
H: Yes
JJ: Sports bras are specifically designed for sports, they're designed for vigorous activity
H: Yes
JJ: And they actually work to specifically reduce bounce and movement of your breast tissue as you exercise, so get professional fitting for a sports bra
H: Yes
JJ: And hopefully should reduce some of that movement, and as she says if it's a look that other people are noticing then that's not really what you want when you're exercising
H: You don't
JJ: So -
H: And actually you can cause yourself long-lasting damage if you don't have that support when you're exercising
JJ: Yes
H: So -
JJ: There's ligaments that you can actually stretch
H: Yes
JJ: And that – you can't repair that once it's done so yes the sooner better
H: It's a tough one though because you know if you've got it going on in the gym it's quite nice having a – but no, not me. I'm strapped in, three tops! Sandy how are you Sandy, thank you for your question. Sandy says "is there a UK average size? I've got a complex – oh mine are too small for my frame" – oh I think that's probably unlikely, but what do you think? Is there an average size in the UK?
JJ: Average is always made up of a mixture of people who are smaller than that and smaller – people that are bigger than that. So yes typically the average size that's bought is a 36c. We would estimate that actually the average size is probably a 34DD – E. But actually there is no normal and one of the things that being a bra fitter teaches you is actually there is a huge range of sizes, shapes, you know there is no one perfect physical ideal
H: Yes
JJ: And you get used to seeing that all the time
H: Yes
JJ: When you look at the media, but actually when you look at other women you realise that there is a whole range, and just for somebody to feel comfortable in their own skin is the most important thing
H: Absolutely but of course if you are someone who thinks I don't like the look of my body, I know Jenny we were talking earlier – what if you can't get over that hurdle and think I'm going to go and get measured? Is it all very hands on and would someone feel intimidating by being measured?
J: No, ask me, ask me because I'm the girl off the street. No I mean I was outside absolutely terrified, worse than my first visit to the gynaecologist -
H: Yes
J: And I finally went in there and it was absolutely wonderful. No you know sort of groping, no tape measures, nothing, there was absolutely nothing to be afraid of
H: Ok good, ok that's good to know. Katie you had a little knowing smile on your face there as well
K: No I just – I used to hate it, I used to absolutely hate it and then they'd bring out ugly horrible bras that only came in your size. But no it's so nice, so friendly, no tape measures
H: Good that's good to know. Right well listen we're going to wrap things up here very shortly. Before we do if I were to go to Bravissimo and I had my fitting, the lovely dress you're wearing, are these available as well, these lovely clothes line?
JJ: Yes we – rather than just being lingerie fitting which is what we originally started as
H: Yes
JJ: We've actually branched out into other product areas, so we particularly specialise as I said, 28-40 back sizes and D-KK cup. But what we found was that a lot of customers had issues being able to find swimwear for example, not being able to find mix and match bikinis for their holidays or swimsuits that fit and gave the support, so we offer those
H: Ok
JJ: And more recently we've also added clothing collection and nightwear
H: Excellent
JJ: So this is really to address the issue of being able to find something so if I shop in other high street shops, I would typically find that dresses would either be very low cut and show half of my bra when I was wearing them, or with anything with buttons that it would gape. So yes it's to address those kind of things as well
H: I quite like the nightwear idea as well because when you are sort of bigger chested, I know my mum, she was blessed – I wasn't – I know she can find it quite uncomfortable to just sort of – they all hang out at night time, she always wanted to feel supported at night time. So let's just end on this, if there are ladies watching now who are thinking I always feel discomfort in this area, I'm not comfortable, I don't feel I look good in my clothes, what would you say to them?
JJ: I'd say go and get fitted
H: Go and get fitted
JJ: It's the start point for it all, yes go and get fitted
H: Excellent.
J: I agree, go get fitted
H: Katie -
K: I agree
H: She agrees too
K: Yes. Or go on the website
H: Or go on the website, which I will direct you to now. Thank you so much – you don't go anywhere, I need a bra fitting! And I'll tell you next time I see you what I come out as, interesting. For more information though do go to visit the website which is all the w's – bravissimo.com. I'll see you soon