H: Glen Tomset, Host
R: Rachel Cooper, police community support officer
N: Nikki Evans, Lancashire Police

Hello and welcome to the Lifestyle Show, my name’s Glen Tomset, it’s nice to have your company today. Now how important is your local community, how much do you want to get involved in your local community? Are you the sort of person whose got something to give back to the area in which you live? If you are that sort of person then maybe you’d like to think about our topic today, it’s becoming a Community Support Officer, a police community support officer, and we’ve got a couple of guests in the studio today who can perhaps dispel a few myths and put you on the right track to becoming that very very person. Now we have with us in the studio Rachel Cooper who is just that, she’s a police community support officer from the Thames Valley region, nice to see you Rachel and thanks for coming in today. She’s going to be talking to us about how to tackle crime on the streets, the ASBO problem which of course is growing and growing, and also Nikki Evans from Lancashire police, Nikki was up nice and early this morning, she’s made it here to London to be with us here in the studio. Taking a look at what it takes to become a police community support officer, so starting with you first of all, if we may Rachel, your job as a support officer – what’s it actually like? You’re out there in the thick of it, what’s the job really like for you?

R: It’s a lot of work in the community, we’re based in one neighbourhood and we’re crewed up and we do a lot of work with the members of the public, in schools, it’s a very challenging role and it’s every day is different, it’s an absolutely fantastic job

H: So how long have you been doing it yourself then?

R: I’ve been doing it now for coming up to two years

H: Yes, and what were you doing before that?

R: Before that I worked for the airlines and I worked at Windsor Castle

H: So that was a glamorous job surely, why did you want to step into giving something back to your community?

R: I’ve always had an interest in the police and the police service, and I really wanted to make a difference in my local area and in my community, because obviously there’s more and more in the news about anti-social behaviour etc and I just thought it was a perfect job for me, and I enjoy working with the public and I’m a people person

H: Ok. Now very shortly we’ve got a piece of video tape coming up of a documentary to do with support officers – were you involved with that at all?

R: I was, yes, yes it was a documentary and it was filmed over a number of weeks, along with Lancashire police and yes we were involved in that and it showed how we worked as PCSOs

H: Talking of Lancashire police, sitting next to you we have Nikki Evans whose an inspector with the force up there in Lancashire, nice to see you – from your perspective, what’s it like working with support officers and getting them involved, are you still looking for people or do you have your full quota now?

N: No I think nationally we are still looking for people, obviously each force has got different requirements but the national figure that we’re aiming to reach by any time soon hopefully is 16,000 and at the minute we’re just below 11,000 in the country, so really we’re still looking for another 5000 people who are willing to put back into the community and to contribute to this really valuable role

H: Ok well let’s look at the video tape, the documentary that Rachel was involved with to do with the police community support officers which was run on television, you might have seen it yourself just before Christmas, let’s have a look at it now

Video footage

“Over the next six weeks we’re going to be following two teams of police community support officers operating in Preston in Lancashire and Oxford

“Seems to be getting a bit agitated”

“Yes that’s probably a good idea, he’s been known to use violence in the past for no reason whatsoever”

“We’ll see them on the front line, dealing with problems that plague Britain’s streets”

“I’m saying you’re not playing football, alright”

“He’s one of 6000 PCSOs patrolling their beats across the UK. Many of them are women”

“It’s racial hate crime”

“Venturing unarmed into tough situations”

“Guys do you want to just stop here”

“Their role in the police force has been questioned by some. This series seeks to show what life is really like on the beat”

H: So police community support officer Rachel there, Rachel Cooper who you saw in that video clip, Rachel what was it actually like working with the crew there?

R: To start with it was quite strange actually because you had to get used to a cameraman following you around. It was basically a fly-on-the-wall documentary and they followed two teams of PCSOs in Lancashire and us in Oxford and we were basically followed round by the camera crew, and they were filming us doing our day-to-day work and how we were working as a PCSO

H: Did you feel under pressure with the camera crew following you?

R: To be – to start with yes, it was quite unusual, but then we got used to it and just forgot they were there and we got on with our jobs

H: Inspector Nikki Evans from Lancashire police, looking for a police community support officer – what sort of qualities do you have to be? I mean you take people on, for instance my neighbour who had a very successful career with a large airline at Gatwick airport, he’s probably mid-fifties, he gave all that up, the commute round the M25 to become a police community support officer – he says it’s a great job, he loves it – every day is totally different. What sort of qualities do you look for in an individual?

N: I think the great thing about PCSOs is we’re looking for that diversity for that – people who are able to represent the different parts of our community, and to sort of lead to some sort of cohesion and perhaps represent elements of the community that don’t necessarily have a voice, or haven’t had a representative within the police service, so we’re looking for everybody, the full range of ages right from sort of late teens, right up until sort of sixties anybody whose able to give back. The most essential quality I would say is probably communication skills, because obviously this is a job that involves speaking to people on a day-to-day basis. Literally every single day is filled with trying to get as much information from the community and trying to give as much information back as we possibly can, about what’s going on in the area, about who they can assist, about what action we can take to reduce the things that are causing them concern, anti-social behaviour, minor criminality, those types of issues where they’re able to contribute in terms of the information that they can relay to the police, and that can then be used as intelligence to drive activity to reduce that kind of behaviour

H: One has impressions of you know the job entailing chasing criminals, jumping over walls; do you have to be super-fit to be a police community support officer?

N: I don’t think you have to be super-fit, by any stretch, I think what you need to realise is that it does involve walking, being out on the beat, getting into your community in terms of foot patrol, and having the ability to be able to spend up to 8, 10 hours walking around a neighbourhood that’s defined and part of your responsibility, but I wouldn’t say that it’s sort of running about or jumping over fences type of activity, it’s more of that just getting to know your community and being able to interact with the individuals who are out and about

H: Ok don’t forget this is a live webchat, on our Lifestyle show today, if you’ve got any questions you’d like to put to either of our guests today, feel free, just submit your question to that little box at the bottom of the screen there, hit the submit button and your questions will come through in the next 25 minutes to me here in the studio, to us in the studio, on my screen and I can put them to our guests. But for you on the patch if you like, actually out there in the thick of it, you know it’s a tough job, I guess, it’s not an easy job, every day is different, you might have a job one day where you go knocking on doors and talking to the local people, another day you might be doing something more serious – I mean is that really what it’s like for you?

R: It is yes, it’s – like you say every day is different, we can be one day giving a presentation in a school to the small school children and then the next day we could be involved in a drugs warrant, so yes it is very different and you don’t know – you can start the beginning of your shift and you can either plan your day or somebody will, like your sergeant, take you away, give you a tasking to do and you could be out as I say involved with a traffic officer, on drugs warrant so yes it is very different

H: Ok so you want to be a police community support officer, how do you go about it? Well we’ll find out from our guests very very shortly, but here’s something you might have seen on the television that ran fairly recently about how you can become involved

Video footage

“Are you lost?”

“Oi you – what are you looking at?”

“ What’s your problem?”

“ Get your dog off?”

“What are you talking about? Oi.”

“Come on now, other people live round here.”

“Hello John, you alright ? You’ll never guess what happened”.

“Police community support officers – could you?

H: Well I hope that gives you a little clue as to how you can go about becoming a police community support officer, with me in the studio today is Inspector Nikki Evans from Lancashire police and also Rachel Cooper from the Thames Valley police force. Now a question in from Darren, he wants to know what are the qualities that make up a good PCSO? Rachel?

R: I think the main quality you have to be a very good communicator. Communications skills is essential and to be able to enjoy working with people from all walks of life

H: Because you do get into some sticky situations I would imagine, and it’s a matter of dealing with all sorts of minority, ethnic minority groups –

R: Yes

H: Youngsters, older people, road rage the whole lot I guess

R: The whole lot, yes

H: You’re supporting the force aren’t you?

R: We are supporting our officers but then saying that anything we can’t deal with we do have back up from police officers, so we’re in touch with them all the time

H: Ok. Question for you then Nikki, how do PCSOs command as much authority as policemen, do they have that same sort of power?

N: They don’t have the same powers, I think that’s where the distinction lies really, the distinction between police community support officer and police officers is in the powers that they’re able to utilise, and I think that if anything goes back to Rachel’s point where communication is essential because if people are to gain that respect and to enable them to be in the community and get the respect and the attention of the community then they need to be able to speak to them and explain to them what the purpose is, and sometimes it works in your favour and against you because people see that without the powers you’re obviously less of a threat to them, but by the same token can sometimes take advantage and if you’ve got those communication skills and the ability to be able to deal with those situations, then that’s obviously going to give you that power if you will in terms of people respecting the authority that you do have, and as Rachel says it’s that linking between, it’s that team philosophy between the PCSOs, the police officers and the wider policing family as well including wardens and special constables etc, there’s lots of people involved in the process and it’s your ability to be able to pick and choose which ones are able to assist you when they’re required which gives you the support that you need in order to gain that respect

H: Ok well that question in was from Kelly. Out of interest, do you have to have reams of qualifications, if you’ve been in trouble in the past with the police how do you stand there?

R: I don’t believe that’s a problem is it?

N: I think it obviously depends upon the type of trouble you’ve been in the past and I wouldn’t say that it’s a bar to applying, I would say that if people have had problems then to contact the local recruitment for the force in their area, and discuss with them how they can progress that or if it’s going to be an issue, but I wouldn’t say that anybody whose got previous, either convictions or cautions should say that automatically they won’t be allowed in, they need to just make sure depending on the types of offences whether or not that would be an issue

H: Ok well don’t forget this is a live webchat, we always like to hear from you on our live webchats, all you have to do if you’re watching today is fill in the little box at the bottom of the screen, hit the submit button and your questions come through right to us in the studio. We’re talking today about police community support officers, a question in from Yvonne McMullen, she wants to know “I’m a woman of 51 years of age. Am I too old to become a police community support officer?” Rachel?

R: Definitely not, no, like I say it’s open to everybody, we’re recruiting all ages so yes definitely not a problem there

H: Ok. And she’s also saying what are the hours you work each week and more importantly and I guess this has got to be the golden question, what is the pay like?

R: Well the hours vary, I think we can recruit obviously full time or part time PCSOs and I do 37 hours a week and that’s over, that’s shift cover we do, so we do earlies and late shifts, and as for the pay I believe it –

N: It varies around the country

R: It varies from force to force, yes

H: It varies around the country does it?

R: Yes

H: Ok, so would the South and South East, London for instance be more, get more money than maybe working up north or in the Midlands or wherever?

N: I think that’s the general trend but obviously you need to be, for specific details you’d have to check with the force in which you’re planning to apply, but it does seem to be weighted obviously depending on the area which you’re working

H: And what about school leavers, do you take in school leavers or do you have to have some experience of life if you like?

R: Well 18 I think is the –

N: Is generally the lower limit, mainly because of some of the tasks that PCSOs are required to undertake because they would involve seizing alcohol, seizing cigarettes and things like that which would obviously necessitate them being of a certain age in order to possess them, so there’s limits there legally speaking in terms of the actions that you’re required to undertake, but I would advise anybody whose interested in getting involved to contact the force because they’ll be able to advise you as to their specific requirements and it may be that there’s an alternative in terms of volunteering or doing some kind of activity on a volunteer basis for that force which would prepare you and give you the experience needed to be a PCSO in the near future

H: Ok, now the training, it’s not just a question of filling in the form and sending it back to your local force and the next day you’re out on the street. What sort of training do you go through, how long is that training and is it quite rigorous?

R: Well obviously that varies as well from force to force but where I’m stationed at Thames Valley I had 4 weeks training at a training school and we learnt the basic law and how to become a PCSO, how to fill in paperwork and tickets, etc, and then we had 4 weeks out with a tutor, either a police officer, another PCSO and we were tutored out on the streets and they showed us how to do the job out on patrol

H: Ok got a note in from, message from Michael Leaming, he wants to know “I just sent off my application form today, I work for the police, military police there, as an unarmed guard at the moment and I find the job quite boring. Will the PCSO job be more hands on? I expect it to be quite an interesting and exciting role.” Nikki?

N: I think so, I think it very much depends on your local tasking arrangements but if it’s as intended, you should be part of what is quite an extensive neighbourhood policing team, who will deal with issues in a very defined locality, so very specific responses to the issues that that community has reached, and you will find your part in resolving those, so as Rachel said earlier each day is different, you can’t predict or say what specifically you’re going to get involved in, but they can be incredibly varied tasks which can be from visiting offenders who have previously been in trouble so that you can monitor them on behalf of the police so that we have the intelligence as to if they’re in, if they’re staying in the addresses that we know that they’re staying in, getting to know their habits, watching out for information from neighbours and gaining intelligence in terms of activity, they can be gathering information in terms of closure orders for properties that are perhaps being used for anti-social purposes such as drug dealing etc, it can be gathering evidence in terms of achieving ASBOs on individuals, so looking at how they’re affecting people in the community, lots of things which are not only in terms of speaking to people but gathering written evidence, and contributing to some, you know very specific and specialist police tactics to address those issues, but at the same time also you can spend the day reassuring individuals and just speaking to people and just letting them know what’s going on as well as, like Rachel said, trips to schools and things to pass on specific messages

H: Ok and on that very subject I have got a message in from Sophie she wants to know “do people like yourself, police community support officers go to schools and do chats about bullying and that sort of thing?”

R: Yes we do, yes, I work quite closely with the schools liaisons officer, well we have two where I’m based at Oxford and they will teach us how to deliver speeches on, for example, bullying, and we’ll go into a school, a primary school for example, and speak to a group of children and we tell them what we do as a PCSO, how they can help us, if they need our help if they see us out on the streets, and yes we do a lot of work in the schools yes

H: And what is your relationship like with the school kids?

R: It’s very good actually, the younger they are I think the better it is to start talking to them when they’re very young and they find it great fun as well, and they get to know us on first name terms and we show them our uniform and we explain what we do and, yes they do enjoy it quite a bit

H: Ok and don’t forget you’re watching the Lifestyle Show with myself Glen Tomset and we’re talking today about police community support officers, we’ve got Nikki and Rachel with us in the studio today. Keep your questions coming in, if you’re not sure how to do it there’s a little box at the bottom of the screen there, on the computer screen, just fill in that box, submit the button, hit the submit button and your question comes through to us in the studio, you’ve got about another 15 minutes, just under 15 minutes to get your question through to us. One from Linda Cash, she wants to know “is a person’s age or gender orientation a barrier or a past health record, is that a problem?”

N: No not generally, I would say with the health issues it would depend upon what they’ve been obviously, if it may hinder your ability as we spoke about earlier to do that routine patrolling and to partake in those kinds of activities then it may be an issue for some forces, but it very much depends upon how each individual force deploys their PCSOs, so my advice would always be to double check with your local area, but as for a gender, I think the very fact that we’re here today and that the split is one of the most diverse within the police service, the representation in terms of gender and ethnic minorities is far more representative of the community than it is within the police officers themselves, shall we say, and that’s quite gratifying because we’re able then to obviously engage with communities that perhaps in the past we’ve not been able to, which really is the purpose of PCSOs

H: Ok, now is it seen as a natural stepping stone if you like to becoming a fully grown, a policeman, a policewoman, a real force member – I mean you’re seen as police community support officers, you do a great job, a valuable job, an invaluable job in fact, I mean is it seen as a stepping stone to becoming you know the big policeman if you like?

R: I think really it depends on the individual, this is a career on its own, you know it’s a career and you don’t have to necessarily want to join the police force, you don’t have to do it I don’t think to go into the police force. Some people use it as a progression and again it does vary on the individual forces I believe, doesn’t it? But no I think, yes –

H: Ok, another question coming in, questions coming in thick and fast to us today which is nice, so from James, he wants to know “I’m actually thinking of joining the police. Would it be easier for me to become a PCSO first?” I guess similar to what we’ve just been speaking about

R: Yes it gives you a good insight to the job, yes definitely and you obviously work with your police colleagues as well and police officers, so yes it’s a good insight into a job if you do want to become a police officer

H: Now Nikki you were saying a little before we came on air today that you’ve had a lot of, you’ve sent out a lot of application forms but you’ve not had those application forms sent back in, now obviously you’d like to appeal for that?

N: That’s right, following the initial advertising campaign and the program that you saw earlier, we had a massive response to those campaigns requesting application forms, but some of those people seem to be reluctant to send them back in and really we’d just like to encourage them to say get the forms filled in and return them back to us because you know there are plenty of people out there, the sorts of people we’re looking for, we want that diversity, we want you to, you know let us know what it is that you’ve got to offer and I’m quite sure that there’s plenty of people that would be able to contribute to you know, what’s becoming an extremely important part of policing

H: What would you say though are the main points that you have to possess in order to become a police community support officer? I mean communication skills, what if you feel you’re slightly a shy sort of person – is that a problem for you?

R: It can be but I think once you get into the role and the more you’re out there talking to people I think you can develop on that anyway, I think yes, obviously communication skills, be able to work with the public, a sense of humour is essential as well, and obviously be able to, there’s a lot of foot patrol like we were saying earlier, be happy to walk around in all weathers

H: A big thick coat you’d need for that job I imagine. Henry wants to know what kind of career progression is there being a PCSO, is there a career progression, is there – do you know, do you climb the ladder so to speak?

R: I don’t believe there’s one in place at the moment, there isn’t a sort of so-called rank structure, I don’t know if they’ll be doing it in the future, at the moment we’re all treated the same

H: Ok, Paul is one of a number of people who’ve emailed us to say that they’ve failed with their application, do they have the same advice, do you have the same advice for Paul and for others as well – what can they do?

N: I think we’d need to look really at the sorts of skills that you’re looking for and again it would really depend upon which part of the application process you’ve failed on, but my advice would be to get yourself involved in the community to develop perhaps some of those skills through volunteer work or through that kind of activity, so that you’re able to evidence the kinds of things and the types of skills that they’re looking for as PCSOs, and if you’re able to do that on a volunteer basis and develop your confidence and increase your communication skills then obviously that’s only going to assist you when you come to trying to apply again and – don’t give up and keep trying would be the advice

H: Ok, Erika’s submitted a question, she wants to put it to Rachel and that is “what aspect of your job do you enjoy the most?”

R: I think well I actually enjoy, firstly getting up in the morning, I know I’ve got a job –

H: You do?

R: Yes I get up in the morning and I know I’m going to do a job that I love and I know that every day’s going to be different and I think it’s just the fact that I’m out there helping people and it’s not every day you know that you can help someone and you can see the end result, it’s knowing that you’ve helped someone, it may not happen overnight, or that day but in a few weeks down the line and they’ve actually appreciated your help and you have made a difference to somebody and you can actually watch your neighbourhood or your community changing gradually and people are you know very respectful of you.

H: Ok, Nikki the number of applications that you’ve had through over the last 12 /24 months – what is it and what would you like to get it up to?

N: At the moment we’ve obviously as I said before we’ve had about 40,000, 50,000 really requests for the packs and about a fifth of those have been returned at the moment, so it’s extremely encouraging the numbers that we’re getting, and those are just from the national campaign, locally forces are running their own recruitment campaigns so the numbers are actually greater than that, so there’s a lot of interest around it, but we would like to continue to push that because we’re still looking for another 5,000 PCSOs, and that means that there’s opportunities around there, but in order for individuals to know specifically in their area if there’s recruitment opportunities I’d suggest they check out the website policecouldyou.co.uk which has each force and their recruitment details, as when they’re recruiting and what the availability of those recruitment dates are, so if you’re looking specifically for a particular area check out their policecouldyou website and see when they’re available

H: Can you apply online at all or is it a question of filling out a form?

N: I think there is an application online, yes I think there is a link through the website, so if you go on there there’s lots of information regarding what PCSOs are, what role they undertake, how they fit in with the police officers and how the team works as well so I would suggest everybody going on and having a look as to what’s required really

H: So is it urgent that they get the forms back in good time then?

N: I think some of the numbers have shown that we’re obviously the momentum’s building if you will and there’s only a finite number of positions available, so I would suggest to people that they get their application forms back as quickly as possible

H: We found I’ve got a question here from Derek Johnson, he wants to know “how long do I have again before time runs out to become a PCSO?” That’s his question

N: On the website each force sort of puts the recruitment dates and the date in which they’re due back, or would like the forms back by, however we’d ask people to have a little bit of caution around those dates because obviously if they receive the requisite number of application forms those dates may become shorter, so don’t necessarily rely on that, I would get your forms in as quick as you can

H: Question from Rachel, how long is your day, how long do you work a day, do you do day shifts, night shifts?

R: Yes for example my day shifts I start at 10 o’clock and I work till 6 or 8 o’clock in the evening, so they’re 8 and 10 hour shifts, and my late shifts are 2 until 10 or 2 until midnight, and midnight is our cut off but that does vary again from area to area

H: Ok. Question through from Keith, Keith wants to know “I’ve not submitted my application form yet as I’m concerned about the risks involved with the job. Did you experience reservations and how did you overcome them Rachel?”

R: Yes I think everybody has reservations because it’s something you’re going into and you’re not sure of and yo9u’ve never done it before but I think the best thing to do if you’re not sure and you do have reservations, speak to someone that’s doing the job now, and you know they’re always happy to give you some information or speak to a police officer, or anybody that’s involved in neighbourhood policing and they’ll be able to give you advice, and if it’s something that you’re really not too sure about then just get extra training and help from anybody you can speak to

H: Ok, Paul’s dropped us a line, he says “what kind of training do you actually receive and how long is that training process?” You did tell us a little earlier but just to remind us again, how long is the training process?

R: Well for myself, again it does vary, I had 4 weeks at training school and we would, we were taught by a police officer down there, basics on law etc and what they expect from a PCSO, and then we had 4 weeks with a PCSO or a police officer out on the streets in your neighbourhood, and they were tutoring us there, watching us and we watched them, how they worked

H: And after the recruitment process is there an assessment? Because I mean we’ve got a message here from Sophie, she wants to know just that “I was just wondering what the assessment was like, is it difficult?”

R: The assessment sorry before when you join or?

H: Mmm

R: No it wasn’t really, I think you have – it does vary but you have a couple of scenarios to complete but they’re not very difficult, it’s general knowledge really, common sense yes

H: Nikki time’s running short, can you believe half an hour’s nearly up? Just run us through that application process again, how do we go about, if anybody wants to become a police community support officer, what is the process, how do they do it? Go online, go to the local police station

N: There’s a number of ways really, I would suggest if you check out the website policecouldyou.co.uk then that will have details on of whether or not your force is, the force in your area is looking for PCSOs at that particular moment in time, and there is an application form online. However there’s also contact details for local recruitment officers so that you can get the application form through the post, and then once that goes in it then very much depends upon local processes, but generally there’ll be an assessment in terms of scenarios, like we say role plays, which will look at the particular types of scenarios that you would look to deal with as a PCSO so they would be more community based situations and how you would handle those, so as Rachel says that’s looking at your common sense, your ability to communicate, so try and get as much experience of that as you possibly can and then generally there’ll be an interview as well which would be specifically looking at your individual skills and abilities, but that does vary as I say so just check out the details on the website and contact your local officer

H: Rachel, why would you urge people to fill in that application form, what would you say to them?

R: It’s a very rewarding job, it’s a challenging job and we definitely need more PCSOs

H: And Nikki, final word, what would you say about PCSOs in their role to the police force?

N: I would say you can’t underestimate the difference that they’re able to make in a local community and if you’ve got them in your local community then you just need to go and look and see what they’re achieving and the difference that they can make is massive, and as Rachel said that’s incredibly satisfying as someone working from this side of the organisation to see the difference that you can make

H: Ok well Inspector Nikki Evans of Lancashire police and also Rachel Cooper of the Thames Valley police, thank you very much for talking about police community support officers. If you’d like to become a police community support officer click on the link at the bottom of the page and thank you very much for all your questions and we’ll hope to see you next time, in the meantime bye bye from all of us